Supporting Newly Single Women on Their Journey to Financial Independence

How Do You Prepare Your Finances for Death or Divorce?

Rachael Burns, CFP and Certified Divorce Financial Analyst joins me to discuss ways to prepare yourself if you find yourself on your own.

We Talk About:

• How spiking interest rates have complicated divorce settlements, especially when dealing with real estate.

• Creative living arrangements like 'nesting'.

• How you can always be prepared just by being involved in the finances regularly.

Rachel will tell us why fixating on to the family home might not always be the best financial decision in a divorce, and why sacrificing retirement savings to keep a house might lead to regret.

We'll also cover the emotional and administrative chaos that typically follows a partner's death, offering essential tips on how you can better prepare for managing finances solo. Our discussion will extend to the importance of not just knowing your financial assets but also having a hand in managing them, even if finances aren't really your thing.

Contact Info:

Contact Rachael Burns at True Worth Financial

Time Stamps

00:20 Meet Rachel Burns: Financial Independence for Women

01:07 Real Estate Challenges in Divorce

03:02 Creative Solutions for Housing Post-Divorce

04:33 Financial Trade-offs in Keeping the House

10:55 Navigating Refinancing and Mortgage Issues

15:59 Credit and Financial Preparedness in Divorce

18:00 The Importance of Financial Awareness in Marriage

18:24 Common Financial Issues in Relationships

19:14 The Consequences of Financial Ignorance

20:18 Preparing for Financial Independence

23:28 Addressing Financial Concerns Before Divorce

24:23 Misconceptions About Post-Divorce Finances

26:10 The Role of Flexibility in Divorce

27:43 Working with Attorneys and Financial Experts

28:50 Handling Finances After a Death

34:13 Final Thoughts and Advice

• Transcript

  Introduction to Me Financial Podcast

  Welcome to Me Financial, the podcast designed to inspire your financial life. Hello everyone. And welcome to the podcast. I'm Michelle Moses, your host. And today I have a special guest that I'm very excited to have on the show.

  
  Meet Rachel Burns: Financial Independence for Women

  She reached out to me to talk about real estate when, and when, um, what happens when someone passes away or there is a divorce, and I have, um, a lot of Rachel Burns here.

  Rachel is passionate about helping women achieve financial independence after the loss of their partner to death or divorce. She is the founder of True Worth Financial Planning, which offers fee only planning, divorce financial analysis, and individual management Our investment management tailored to the unique needs of newly single women.

  Prior to founding True Worth, Rachel spent 12 years advising affluent families under the top wealth management firms. She's a certified financial planner and certified divorce financial analyst [00:01:00] and has an MBA and a master's in personal financial planning. Thank you for coming on. Thank you so much for having me, Michelle.

  Yeah.

  
  Real Estate Challenges in Divorce

  So, um, as I said, we're going to talk about real estate and what to do when it comes to divorce or, um, a death. And we're kind of talking before the podcast started. I think this is going to pertain more to divorce because with death, uh, things are in place. There's laws in place, whereas divorce, obviously it's, you know, two people are still alive and you're not just inheriting something.

  Uh, am I correct in that assessment, Rachel? Yeah, divorce is kind of like the Wild West. Like, you don't really know how things are gonna, yeah, how things are gonna end up, uh, when it's a house is inherited. It's a, maybe a, maybe a little bit more orderly. Right. Right. And I, yeah, because again, there's like laws in place of things, how, how it's going to go and how you're going to inherit it.

  Whereas, um, Divorce could go any different way. You could own it 2080 or 5050 or, you know, well, it just completely depends on, uh, the [00:02:00] situation. So why is it that you think that this is important at this time, uh, at this, uh, time moment in time? So, um, it's interesting. This is not really something I've, that's come up a ton until interest rates went up so much.

  And I'm not a real estate expert. I just, all of a sudden, once interest rates. I noticed all of these problems it was causing in divorces, because in most of the divorces that I see, there's a house that has to be dealt with. If they own a house, either one person is going to continue to own it, or they're going to sell it and they're going to do something else.

  But because of the rise in interest rates, since they have bought the house, It makes planning and coming up with agreements on how they're going to deal with it. It makes it so much more difficult and it really reduces a lot of the options too. Right, because they can't move anywhere because they're in a house and then it's so much more expensive [00:03:00] to move somewhere else, right?

  Right. Okay.

  
  Creative Solutions for Housing Post-Divorce

  And so are you finding that people are getting more creative with the solutions that they're coming up with? Like keeping the house and having, you know, cause I saw something actually, I was just reading an article last week and I don't remember what they called it, but like the kids stayed in the house and then the parents moved out and then they were nesting.

  Yeah. Is that what that's called? Yeah. Which nesting. nesting. Okay. And so then they would get another place. And so the parents were the ones that moved out. And, but their argument was more that, you know, it's not the kid's fault that we're getting a divorce. So why should we do a complete copy of them so much?

  Yeah. And have them go back and forth. Whereas we're the ones making this decision, which kind of, I mean, yeah, it kind of makes sense. It does. Um, that's not an option that's available for everyone. I see that in wealthier families. I see that in families where they own several houses and they have This is the kid's house.

  And then the parents are going back and forth because otherwise. You're going [00:04:00] to be keeping the house. You're going to have the parents switching back and forth. And then what, there's an apartment that one goes and stays in on the off times. And do you have two apartments? Do you have, does each parent have their own apartment or are they sharing the apartment?

  And how annoying would that be? Right. You get divorced and you're still in your husband, you know, your ex like left the toilet seat up and made, you know, left some rotten. Lettuce in the fridge or something. It's, it's not easy to pull off, but there are, I've, I've worked with some families that were able to pull it off, but these are typically much wealthier families.

  Okay. So what are you seeing, I guess, on the, in the regular world?

  
  Financial Trade-offs in Keeping the House

  So what I see is, um, Usually one person wants to keep the house. That's just what I seem to see more often. And usually it's the wife. And this is especially common when there are underage kids still living at home and the wife will want to keep the house.

  And maybe the husband is okay with that. A lot of times the husband's like, whatever, I'll go get another house. But what happens is in order to keep the house, there's two [00:05:00] problems. One is you have to give up something else of equal value in order for it to even out. And sometimes that's not a problem.

  Some couples have a lot of assets and it's like, okay, great. You take the house. I'm going to take this big investment account. We'll call it a day and that's fine. But if there's not, A ton of other assets, or maybe the only other assets are retirement accounts. So maybe it's like, okay, I can keep this house, but I'm not going to have any retirement money in order to keep it.

  And then maybe you can work it out for now. Maybe they can swing it, but then later. They don't have any retirement savings already and then maybe the cost of upkeep, you know, keeping the house means that they can't save additional money for retirement. So then they're in really bad shape in the long run.

  Yeah. Yeah. And you don't want to give up your retirement account. I've seen people do that or where they're going through divorce and they're just like, whatever, just let him have it. Cause mostly I've been friends with women, right? Well, just let him [00:06:00] have it. And I'm like, no, no, you don't know. Don't bury your head in the sand.

  You need to like, make sure you're getting a fair deal here, you know, because that could really come back to bite you in like 20 years. Absolutely. And I see that a lot. And yeah. I think part of it is an emotional thing. They're, they're just like, I don't want to disrupt the kids, you know, and that I, I get that.

  And that's an honorable thing, but you have to understand the cost of doing that. And, um, sometimes it's not, sometimes it's just not affordable to keep the house. And. Maybe you can swing it technically, but you're going to feel the consequences of that at some point. And, you know, your kids, kids are resilient.

  I'm not a parenting expert by any means, but I feel like the amount of discomfort or, um, stress by moving is one thing, but then having, you know, as a, as a kid, and then having your parents [00:07:00] grow up to be in really bad financial shape so that you might have to support your parents. Well, and the stress that comes from that too, that they're stressed out about money.

  What are you teaching them? Yeah. Right. The day to day. Right. So it's like, well, what's better? Is it better to keep them in the same house or is it better to have everyone be more, have more financial Right. Strength later on. Yeah. Right. And to not be so stressed out about it. Yeah. Okay. So are you, so it's basically, it's getting more complicated when you're coming to the, so are there things that people can do to prepare for this?

  I mean, I guess you're never really preparing for a divorce. It's not like a death that you know is gonna come. Um, yeah, it is hard. It's hard to prepare for divorce and, uh, whether you know what's coming or whether you're blindsided, you're, you're still going to have these decisions that need to be made and these trade offs that need to be made.

  And what I would say like to anyone who is considering it or who's in the, you know, in the beginning stages of their divorce is you just have to be [00:08:00] realistic because Times have changed. Lots of things have changed. Your relationship has changed. The world has changed. Interest rates have changed. Um, things that may have been an option for you at one point might not be an option right now.

  And maybe later down the line, there will be more options. So it's not the end of the world. But you might have to consider a scenario that you didn't consider before. And maybe that means not keeping the house, or maybe that means downsizing or something else that maybe isn't ideal, but is going to be.

  put you in a better position in the long run. So I think my only advice is be as open minded as you can and don't go into that fight like fighting for something that you can't actually afford to keep. Yeah, that you're holding on to something that probably needs to be let go. Yeah, and bring something and everything is temporary, right?

  I mean, even if you have to [00:09:00] downsize and they both move into a condo, let's say, which is probably pretty realistic in today's day, right? That it's not forever. I mean, it just might be for a couple of years. It might be for four or five years, right? Because things will continue to change and interest rates might drop.

  And you know, the, the housing market might. Who knows what's going to happen with that. Things, things will absolutely change. We don't know in what direction they're going to change, but, um, yeah, it's not, it's not the end of the world. And so I, well, I would imagine that you're coaching people through this.

  I mean, I can't imagine, you know, I've, I've, I wouldn't say interviewed. I've been friends with some divorce lawyers before, and they're like, people are nuts. They just go crazy, you know? So as a lot of what you do, is it just, you know, listening and giving advice and trying to maintain your. Uh, level headedness through all of it.

  Yeah. You're probably just dealing with one. You're either dealing with the husband or the wife, right? Not both of them. I just deal with one side. There are, [00:10:00] uh, divorce financial analysts who are neutrals who work with both sides, but I don't do that. I just work with the one side. And so I deal with a lot of emotions.

  And I'm not a therapist, but I do understand how emotions influence financial decisions. And especially, especially, especially working so much with divorce, emotions impact those decisions in kind of predictable ways. And I see it over and over and over again. And so when someone is like, I need to keep the house because I need to keep the house and I don't want, you know, whatever, I get that and I honor that.

  But I. I kind of know where they're coming from and I try to separate the rational logical part from the emotional part and I try to like attack each piece. Okay. Appropriately.

  
  Navigating Refinancing and Mortgage Issues

  And then I try to just Show people their options, because [00:11:00] if someone really wants to keep the house and they don't really know what that entails, I'm like, well, here's what has to happen.

  Your ex has to come off the mortgage. And for most people, that means refinancing. Some people are lucky enough to be able to just remove a person like they have an assumable mortgage, but that's not that common. So you're going to have to refinance. Which means, um, Is it an assumable mortgage? Would that only be, well, they're not very much.

  I mean, I think the VA loans you can assume, but then they're not any of the government loans. You can't assume any. I don't think so. I only have a couple of clients who are able to actually do that. Okay, and that means that they can take over the rate and they don't have to refinance it. Basically, it's like they take over the existing loan as is nothing changes.

  It's just one person gets taken off. Okay. But for everyone else, there has to be a whole new loan and they have to Qualify based on their income based on their credit. And [00:12:00] then they've got whatever interest rate is the current market rate, which is for a lot of people is a lot higher than what they had before.

  A lot of people that I'm meeting was bought at the perfect time. I mean, interest rates were really low for a long time, which was really great, but. It's not, that's not a forever thing. Um, and so what's happening is there when they refinance or when they're looking at refinancing, they're like, my payment is going to be twice as much as it was before.

  And I absolutely can't afford that. And that's a really big shock for them. Well, and it's twice as much too, because you're not only refinancing the portion that was already in the mortgage, but you're having to take out money, right. To pay off the other spouse. And is that how most people do it? Yeah. So, so there's a couple of ways you do it.

  Uh, so sometimes they'll, they'll do like a cash out refinance where they'll not only borrow the same amount they borrowed before, but they'll take out more so that they can pay off their ex for the, their [00:13:00] ex's share. Or ideally, if they have other assets, They've got investment accounts or maybe they have another property or they've got cash somewhere and they're like, maybe they can offset it with other assets and that's ideal.

  And then they can just keep, they would have whatever the same loan balance was, but it would be at a different, at a higher rate. Um, but a lot of times there's just not enough assets to do that. Um, and because most people have money in their retirement accounts and that's how they would pay somebody off, right?

  Yeah. But it's really expensive if you have 401k to get the lawyers. It's called a quadro, everybody. Uh, it's a qualified domestic relations or relations order. Okay. I can't believe I ever pulled that out of the hat. Um, so they're really expensive to get. So it's basically a calculation that a lawyer does and then you hand it off to your 401k and then they split it off and it's, it's, it's a pain.

  I mean, even, yeah, even if you have it made, then submitting it to the company and having them [00:14:00] actually understand it and split it, it's, it takes months. Yeah. Yeah. Even if it makes sense for you to be able to do that, even if there's enough money in the retirement to where your part is going to be. You know, you're still going to have enough, there's still this process and the quadros each quadro document costs several hundred dollars.

  And if you're splitting multiple retirement accounts, it's several hundred dollars per account. And then there's this whole process where it has to get approved by the court and then it has to come back to the plan administrator. And it takes several months and it requires the cooperation of the ex too.

  Like they might have to sign off on things. I'm going through that with a client right now. where the X is just being, just not wanting to sign the documents to get the quadro done. And so it's not like, Oh, I'll just take money out of retirement to pay you off. It's not as simple as that. And then you've got taxes too.

  Your retirement accounts are probably pre tax and you're going to have to pay taxes on that money. And at least When you're getting divorced, there is a, [00:15:00] um, way around the 10 percent penalty if you're under 59 and a half, but there's a special process for that to get money out without penalty, but you're still going to have to pay taxes either way.

  So there's no perfect, um, solution in this situation. It's just, it's just a matter of which of these scenarios is going to work best. So you have to pay income taxes because you've never paid taxes on it, but you don't have to pay the penalties of taking it out before 50. If you do it correctly. Yeah.

  Okay. I see it not done correctly fairly often, and they lose that opportunity to get money out penalty free. Yeah. But if you do it right. If you come to me first, that's what everybody says, every lawyer that I've had on here is like, if you would have just come to me earlier, everybody says you gotta come, you gotta be proactive.

  Okay, so I want to back up a little bit to what you were saying about, um, having to, so when you're refinancing the house and you're having to requalify or qualify again for your same house.

  
  Credit and Financial Preparedness in Divorce

  Uh, [00:16:00] I think it's important because what happens a lot is when you are in a marriage, there's a, there's one spouse that is like doing all the finances, all the credit cards are in their name.

  Yeah. You know, that kind of thing. Uh, and it's, that's not a good thing. You know, you need to always be making sure that your credit is good and that you still have things on your credit. Right. And you're keeping up with it. Now, do you see a lot of that where like their credit score isn't good or that they don't have any savings accounts because the husband was saving and everything or whoever was working was just saving money inside of their retirement accounts?

  Yeah. Credit is a, is an issue in divorce for several reasons. A lot, a lot of times, like you said, things were in one person's name and not the other. And maybe one spouse just doesn't have credit because nothing was in their name, or maybe that spouse has bad credit, or maybe they all had bad credit. Um, and so what happens is when, once they're going through a divorce, They haven't even looked at their credit in so long [00:17:00] and they look and they're like, Oh, this is not what I was expecting.

  This is not as good as I was expecting or whatever. Um, and so it's really important as soon as you know, you're getting divorced, I think to run a credit report on yourself, um, and, and understand what loans you have in your name, what credit cards you have in your name. Sometimes there are things on your credit report that you're not even aware of because your spouse might've Who knows, taking things out under your name.

  And so it's really good to know, you know, what do I have outstanding? And also just what's my credit score look like? Okay. It's really important. Okay. Cause it can just be cause people think it'll just be easy sailing basically. And then it's not because they've got bad credit. Yeah. Or sometimes it's the other way around.

  Sometimes they think, Oh, it's going to be terrible. And then it's great. You just have to know, you just have to check. Cause if you haven't checked your credit in a long time, there can be some surprises on there and there can be mistakes on there too. And you can have them corrected, but either way you got, you have to know.

  Okay. [00:18:00]

  
  The Importance of Financial Awareness in Marriage

  Yeah. And I think it's, that's what happens a lot is they're just like, Oh, I'm married, whatever, you know, so and so's got it. I don't, I can just stick my head in the sand, but I just don't think that you can ever do that. Um, no matter if you're married or not, or make a ton of money. I mean, even if you make a ton of money, I think you still need to be paying attention to where everything is going and not even just your credit, but your savings accounts and where all your accounts are.

  
  Common Financial Issues in Relationships

  Do you see a lot where people don't even know what they have? Yeah. Like they, they, they're just hoping that the other, the other spouse, that their ex is reporting it correctly of all these accounts. It's really, really common. And sometimes it can, it can happen for a few reasons. It could be like one person is just not interested in participating in that and they delegate it to their spouse.

  And that's, that's fine. Um, sometimes one spouse intentionally keeps the other one out of the financial stuff because. There might be something in there that they don't want to be uncovered either [00:19:00] in a fair or gambling or lots of debt or something. So it's really, really common that one person is more involved and sometimes one person is not involved at all.

  And that works fine.

  
  The Consequences of Financial Ignorance

  And as long as things are going perfectly well, but as soon as there's a divorce, someone passes away, someone gets really sick, there's all sorts of things that can happen and probably will happen. I mean, chances are if you're married, something is going to happen at some point, someone's going to die or someone's going to get sick or you're going to get divorced or something.

  And the other person is going to need to step up and take over the financial stuff. And if you haven't done that in decades. Think of how much extra stress you will be causing yourself in addition to whatever stressful thing caused you to not be with that person to begin with. Exactly. Exactly. And how many years it's going to take you to understand the logistics of the accounts and how they go together.

  Not only [00:20:00] just how to log in, but you know, this one is transferring money to this one on a monthly basis or, you know, whatever. that they've got it all set up. Yeah. Yeah. It's just never good to stick your head in the sand people at it like I understand that finances aren't for everyone. Like not everyone is really interested in this.

  
  Preparing for Financial Independence

  Like there are plenty of things that I'm not interested in, but I like to delegate, umm, but finances are something that are so fundamental and impact everyone. And. You don't have to become an expert and you don't have to do everything yourself, but I think you should have a minimum level of involvement and understanding with your own financial situation and if you have a partner with their financial situation.

  Because there's a very good chance that at some point you're going to be called upon to. Right. Yeah. Deal or do something with it. Yeah. And you're going to need to log into the accounts or at least know where things are so that you can pay bills or stop a [00:21:00] draft or whatever needs to happen there. Um, and I think it's really important too.

  I mean, there's a lot of things where I'll open an account and just say, Hey, I'm just sending this to you. Like I bought some I bonds a couple years ago when they were paying so much and I just sent the email to my husband. I was like, Hey, you need to know this is here. This could be, you know, something happened to me.

  This could get lost in the ethers. Um, or having like a spreadsheet or something like that where you're reviewing them. Uh, and I'm definitely not an expert. Like I, have such a good financial relationship with my husband that we don't argue about my, you know, all. So that is such like another world for me.

  I don't deal with people that have issues with that or, you know, or even divorce. Uh, but it is something that I stress to people that, you know, you guys all need to know, you know, what's going on. Is there anything that you would suggest that people do for the, so that they know what's going on? Oh, I would say that, um, It's not uncommon that finances are an [00:22:00] uncomfortable subject.

  With their spouse, either. I don't know that that's just like a tender subject and people can kind of flare up when, when that's discussed. And I think that prevents people from having the conversations. And that's when it turns into a problem later on. And I get that and I don't know the best advice to like, have that conversation.

  More open conversations with your spouse, but like I, when, if, if I have a, uh, someone that I'm working with that is like, I, I don't know, like we, we can't have those conversations. It's just too awkward or too weird. I'm like, that's, that sounds kind of like a couples therapy type situation. Like that's maybe it's not just the finances that are the issue.

  Like, yeah. There needs to be, you might need some help in facilitating conversations. Exactly. Yeah. Conversations in general. Yeah. And having hard conversations. Yeah. Because if you give up the money [00:23:00] piece of it, you're giving up so much of your power of being able to stand on your own two legs. I mean, really, if you, if you think about it that way, uh, and when you don't have the knowledge or the, and you're not involved in the finances, then it just makes you that much weaker.

  And then if you are wanting a divorce or something does happen with a death, then you're, yeah, as you said, you're just, It's so much worse off than having that kind of tidied up, I guess.

  
  Addressing Financial Concerns Before Divorce

  And I have a lot of people reach out to me before anything is filed and they're just thinking about divorce, but they'll reach out to me and ask, can I afford to get divorced?

  They'll, they'll be like, I really want to get divorced, but I don't know if I can. And I'm like, what do you mean can? Like, And it's just, will I be able to survive financially if I get divorced? And that's a, that's a sad and scary thing that someone is trapped in this really unhappy relationship because they feel like they truly have no other options.[00:24:00]

  And a lot of times, There are other options. You just need a little bit of education. Um, and, but I, I have a lot of people call me and ask me about that. And I'm like, wow. So what is their concern that they wouldn't be able to afford a place to live? I could see that. Yeah. Um, they, they worry that. They can't find a place to live.

  They worry that they won't have any income.

  
  Misconceptions About Post-Divorce Finances

  They, they make these assumptions or maybe their ex tells them like, you wouldn't get a dime of child support from me or, you know, all the retirement accounts are mine. They, a lot of times there's some misconceptions about how the finances would be split. And so they think they're going to have no money and they're going to have to go back to work full time and maybe they have little kids and they think, Oh, it's not possible.

  It's kind of like their imagination can run wild sometimes. And a lot of times I'm like, that's not how that's going to work. This is how things are typically split. This is what, you might expect to get and they're like, Oh, [00:25:00] that's so much better than I was expecting. Okay. I thought it was more, am I going to be able to maintain my lifestyle?

  Like when they were saying that, you know, um, are they going to be able to, obviously maybe they're not gonna be able to stay in the same house, but what if you can't go get your hair done at the same rate or, you know, those kinds of things, it would be such a change in lifestyle. That would some people not go divorce because of that, I guess.

  I, in my experience, you know, that's a, that's a consideration and that's something that people are aware of, but I typically don't hear people say, Oh, well, I can't maintain the vacations and Botox and the whatever, like a lot of times they, they understand what they're giving up, but they're by the point that they're talking to me, usually they're like, yeah, that's fine.

  Let's do this. Like, it's like, I gotta get out of here. Yeah. I just, I personally don't like in my experience, I haven't had too many people who were like, [00:26:00] oh no, I really want to be able to keep doing these, you know, um, Expensive things. Okay. Usually they're kind of, they're just so over it by the time. Okay.

  
  The Role of Flexibility in Divorce

  Well, from the, from just like, I guess, giving a synopsis of what you're saying, it sounds like if you're going through a divorce, I mean, you really need to be flexible. You need to be flexible in your thinking. You need to be flexible in what your new life is going to look like and going into a divorce saying, I'm definitely going to stay in this house.

  I'm definitely going to, you know, any of that. You need to really say, I'm kind of throwing this up in the air and seeing how it's going to land. Yeah, I would say people on average do not understand how the financial process of divorce works. It is a very complicated, mysterious process. And, um, most people don't know how it works.

  Most people don't understand or wouldn't be able to even reasonably predict what life would look like on the other end. And so it's this [00:27:00] going into this. Big mysterious cloud that they have no idea how things are going to turn out. But then if you have these rigid requirements, like I need to have this much income, or I need to have this house, or I need to do this, you don't know what things are going to be like once you get into it.

  And so I think having flexibility. Is really key. Well, and it seems like if you're really rigid about all of that, then you would drag it out because yeah, you wouldn't be willing to negotiate really. And you have to be willing to negotiate on everything. And things will take longer and attorney fees will increase exponentially and everyone will be pissed and it.

  
  Working with Attorneys and Financial Experts

  Like, so are you, are you working with the attorneys too? Sometimes. Okay. So you like, you guys need to work in tandem, like, like here's these accounts that we've gotta split up or something like that? Yeah, yeah. I work with people who are unrepresented, who are in mediation, [00:28:00] who have attorneys, and sometimes I get brought in by the attorneys or, or to work alongside the attorneys.

  You know, when they're looking at different scenarios, I look at the numbers and say, yeah, that might look fair, but this. isn't really great in, in the client's long term, or this isn't actually as good as it looks because this is taxed differently. So it's typically like value divorces that I get pulled in with the attorney, but, um, I can evaluate different proposals.

  Yeah. So the attorney could give the proposal and then you're basically translating it to real life of what are the taxes? How are you going to be able to live on this? Are you going to be able to retire on this? You know, are you really going to be able to save and you're kind of where the tire meets the road of the every day?

  Okay. That sounds like a wonderful service as you're going through a divorce.

  
  Handling Finances After a Death

  I mean, cause you, I mean, I can imagine it would just be so stressful and even a death, right? I mean, you're just so stressful, stressed that you need someone to be able to tell you [00:29:00] it's going to be okay. Or what? It's not even okay.

  Just like you need the truth of what it is. And then you can deal with it. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think, um, You know, I, I deal with people who are going through difficult things and I help them with the math, you know, the, the part that I help with is, is actually not emotional, not, you know, it's, it's fairly cut and dry that part that I help with, but I, um, Attuned to, you know, I dunno, I, I, I specialize in people who are going through difficult things for a reason.

  And I like to be able to help. It's like, well, let me help with this part. I can make this part easy. You already have a lot of really difficult stuff you're dealing with. Let me make this simple for you and easy and like, take it off your plate so that you can deal with the other stuff. And I, like, when I think about my own wife, like just the other day, I was talking to someone about.[00:30:00]

  Care for my dad who has some cognitive stuff and like, this is like really cut and dry insurance stuff and facts and numbers and stuff, but it's got so much of my emotion wrapped around it. And I can't understand the little pieces because I'm too wrapped up in the other stuff. And I really appreciated this professional who dealt with that specific situation, who is an expert in the, numbers and the facts and stuff, but could help guide me through the emotional stuff.

  And I was like, Oh, that's kind of like what I do, but with divorce. And I was like, I, that guy was really helpful. I hope that I'm as helpful as that. Yeah, no, I get it because it's, it just gets so overwhelming and it's almost like people just can't. Yeah, there's just so much going on that it's like when, if someone can just give me a synopsis of, is this going to be okay?

  Okay, great. Then I can put that aside and I can worry about all this other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I have dealt [00:31:00] with some deaths. And so I get that, that that's, you know, um, you know, people get life insurance and how do I get it? And, you know, they're just going through all the accounts. And so if they have someone that can help them with that, um, it's just such a huge weight off of their shoulders.

  So, um, yeah, I, I think it's worth it for sure. People are very grateful for it with the death stuff specifically. Yeah. There is so much administrative work that has to be done when someone passes away. It's really mind boggling. Even if, even if they're not a super wealthy person, even if they don't have a super complicated situation, it's, and I just like, I, for the people that I get involved with, I'm on the phone calling the death department, you know, financial institutions, and I'm dealing with them and I have to call the same number 20 times to follow up.

  Did you get the paperwork? Did you do the check on the way? And [00:32:00] I know it is a part time job. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that I have to follow up a million times and I know that I have to ask the question in the exact right way. And I know, I know the tricks. But I think about the people that are dealing with that with no help.

  That is exactly what I think about. Yep. And these people in these service departments are rude or they drop the ball. And I'm like, this is so miserable, such a miserable experience. And to be subjecting people who are already going through this tremendous loss and then make them deal with the most annoying administrative headache they've ever experienced.

  Yeah, and the service people don't want to offer help. I mean, you're right. You have to ask the questions in a certain way. And when I'm on like a three way call with a client and I'm asking questions like, Oh, I never would have thought like you have to hold their feet to the fire and say, what is the next step?

  Are you going to turn this in? Are you going to, you know, you really do need to know exactly how to ask and you need to push them because we know, [00:33:00] well, you and I know more than the person at the service center. And so, you know, we have to go in with that of we're just trying to get past all of this paperwork mumbo jumbo, uh, so that my client, I've got one now, she's not a client, she's a friend of my friend's, my friend's mom, and, um, she's on a very limited income, and so I have offered to help them with these annuities, and it's been four months of this back and forth, and all they do is say, oh, you filled this out wrong, well, we called and filled it out with you on the phone.

  So how did I fill this out wrong? You know, so it's just all of this. And I do think about that. Like, what would they do if we weren't here to help them? I mean, they just kind of let it go by the wayside. And then two years later, it's like, okay, I'm going to figure this out now. It's just, it's not fair, honestly.

  It's not. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. It infuriates me and, uh, makes me want to scream at them sometimes, but. Sometimes I get really mad and sometimes I'm, sometimes I'm not very nice on the phone. Oh, absolutely. But you have to really deserve it. Yeah. [00:34:00] Yeah, they do. And sometimes these clients are like, I don't know how you kept your cool.

  I'm like, I know. I don't, I'm just used to it. This is my everyday. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Um, so are we missing anything about you feel like with divorce and death or preparing for anything?

  
  Final Thoughts and Advice

  Um, I mean, I really, it's like being flexible in divorce and then with death, it's knowing where everything is.

  Yeah. And I just think no matter what your situation, no matter what your relationship status, no matter what your interest level in financial stuff is, just have a minimum awareness. It's going to make your life a lot easier and it's not as, it's not as overwhelming a task as I think it sounds because people hear about, I mean, if you think about all the financial stuff that you hear in the news, it's like Bitcoin or, you know, I don't know.

  It's like complicated stuff that gets a lot of [00:35:00] attention or exotic stuff that gets a lot of attention. I'm like, you don't need to worry about any of that stuff. This is really basic stuff. This is like, what do I own? Where is it? What website do I go to? What website? What's my login? And if you can't get in with your login, that's okay.

  You're not going to get locked out. Right. Some people just get so frustrated. Like, I can't remember my password. I'm like, it's okay. That's a, that's a, that's an overcomable. Yeah. We can figure that out. We just need to know that you have the account there and we'll be able to call. And you know, as long as you have people's social security numbers and yeah, some information, you can figure it out.

  Yeah. And everything is figureoutable. But you definitely have to start. But if you have like a, at least an area to start with, that helps tremendously. Uh, and on the death thing, I always tell people like, even when they're super versed and they don't need my help and it's just a friend I'm talking to, I'm like, you got to give it six months.

  I'm like, no, no, my grandma was super, you know, organized and all of this stuff has already transferred. I'm [00:36:00] like, mark my words. It's going to take six months. It'll at least take six months for you to figure out, there'll always be one little thing that's just like lingering. Yeah, yeah, I was just talking to a client about this this morning actually, like, her mom had a trust, had met with an estate planner, done all this stuff, and it's still complicated because some things had changed since she hadn't made her trust, and some things weren't updated as they should, and there are complications.

  That stuff moves so slow, like so slow, so slow. And if I could just talk to call and talk to legal, like right away, you know, I just want to call and be like, can I just talk to your legal department, please? You know, cause it just gets it so much faster, but yeah, yeah, it does take a while, but, um, okay. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

  I hope that this helped all of you guys and just having an inkling or actually just a conversation. It's just motivating you to talk to your spouse about your finances and to get in there and it doesn't need to be huge about like, how much are we going to spend on this, this, this, just where [00:37:00] is everything and how do we access it?

  Um, and, and then you could maybe get into how much are we saving, but I think, um, this kind of thing of just knowing where it is, um, can just help you tremendously. Well, Rachel, I thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure talking to you and, uh, so much. As I said, maybe we can do a show later because I haven't had another advisor on the show.

  So it's kind of nice to do a little powwow about frustration on the phone. Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening. Be sure to tell your friends if you enjoyed the episode and I hope you have a great day.

Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and should not be construed as professional financial advice. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor or professional before making any financial decisions. The hosts and guests of this podcast are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information presented.